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Poster: adks12020 Date: May 29, 2012 5:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

I'm not exactly sure how you can even compare the two. It's apples to oranges.

Trey - Very technical, mathematical playing. He's said as much. All them members of Phish think that way and play that way; that's why they work together so well as an ensemble.

When Phish fans see a "bad show" they often define "bad" as Trey flubbing very technical, composed changes, runs, arpeggios, etc. Of course they jam, a lot, but the essence of what makes Phish good, IMHO, is their ability to rip through very techincal compositions flawlessly and then take certain sections into a jam..much like Zappa.

Jerry - Sure, he was skilled technically (anyone that argues that is a little ridiculous), but to me it seems as though he, and the Grateful Dead had a completely different style and take on music. Jerry made you feel what he's playing; he could play one note that would just tug at you. I've seen Phish a lot since 1995 and I don't get that from Trey; that's the strength of Jerry's playing. I can't think of many guitar players that could ever do that as well as him. The Dead didn't seem to want to sound techical so the majority of their compositions were not written that way. They weren't loaded with crazy key changes and lots of technical, composed sections. The Dead took simpler songs and brought them into the stratosphere playing off eachother and feeling eachother out. They let it all go and would see what would happen. They could miss notes or lyrics here and there and their fans would still call it an excellent show because of that. They weren't expected to "nail it" on every change like Phish.

Ok, I think I rambled a little too much but I think I made the point was trying to make...btw, I love both bands but I listen to the Dead more. Phish live, though, is $50 well spent a very high percentage of the time.

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Poster: steam locomotive Date: May 29, 2012 1:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

Apart from the superficial similarities (jams, tendencies toward modes over pentatonic scales, etc.), they were quite different players (and writers!) as many commentators have noted below.

But I didn't notice any mention of what is, to me, the most obvious difference: Jerry Garcia was chock full of soul in his playing and singing, and Trey (like the rest of Phish) is just a geeky, soulless, white motherfucker. I don't care how many arpeggios he nails, he couldn't communicate real human emotion even if you set him on fire.

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Poster: high flow Date: May 29, 2012 1:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

I was first to respond to the original thread and, though not as eloquently as you, said the same thing.

http://archive.org/post/421587/jerry-and-amp-trey

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Poster: ducats Date: May 29, 2012 3:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

why do u have to get racist?

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 29, 2012 7:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

Well said. Good points all.

And along the lines of the Dead and technical compositions, this is the exact reason why I'm not a big fan of Terrapin. Majority of it is composed (technical) stuff with a little bit for improv. To me it usually just lays there (please no comments regarding spouses). There are a couple that I do like, but I can't say I've ever laid waste to an ottoman listening to the tune.

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: May 29, 2012 11:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

Nailed it

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: May 29, 2012 8:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

"To me it usually just lays there (please no comments regarding spouses). There are a couple that I do like...."

What, you 'do like' a couple of spouses?!?!? How'd you manage that?

Hmmm, wonder if Mrs. Mando would go for it.......

PS - If I never post again it's because Mrs. Mando read this post and I am now buried in the drip line of our peach tree.


This post was modified by Mandojammer on 2012-05-29 15:00:31

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Poster: WillCo Date: May 29, 2012 12:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

I agree about Terrapin Station. Do you remember the hoohah surrounding the first-ever official release of a live version on the 1990-03-15 limited edition "Terrapin Station" set (and its eye-watering price tag)? I for one wondered what the fuss was all about. Right from the studio release days I thought it didn't cut the mustard for Grateful Dead - a bit proggy, more like Jethro Tull's Thick As A Brick, and a huge disappointment following Blues For Allah.

Back to Phish. They make some fun stuff available free on their Live Bait series, and volume 7 has just become available (you might need to register for their mailing list).

Live Bait volume 7 (free)
http://www.livephish.com/live-music/0,707,52/Phish-mp3-flac-download-Live-Bait-Vol-07.html

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 29, 2012 11:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

I am always impressed by the fact that an 82 fan (I know, I know, a bit more to you than this...) and 68 freak can so agree on the TS contribution; at the risk of being meoldramatic, I'd say that sums it up v nicely...

As for spouses, those that lay and those that lie, well, I'll just leave it to someone else to cover.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 29, 2012 12:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

Well done.

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: May 29, 2012 7:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

adks12020, you said it well! One of my favorite phishy experiences was at the Shoreline in 2000 while they were playing "Wading in the Velvet Sea" with thousands of green glowsticks wavin to the music...it was awesome! Imho, seeing Phish live trumps any recordings of theirs.
That said, I'd chose Phish over the latest incarnation of The Dead if I had two choice's.

Of course, I'll be Dead until I'm dead, tho I like to go phishing every now and then.

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Poster: user unknown Date: May 29, 2012 7:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

I think the comparison comes from the fact that so many anointed Phish as the next Grateful Dead. Never saw it myself, but I sure did hear it a lot.

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Poster: adks12020 Date: May 29, 2012 7:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

I agree totally. The only things I see that are similar are that they both have(had) a large community folling them and both bands play(ed) long jams. Other than that they are not at all similar.

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Poster: august_wst Date: May 29, 2012 9:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

Totally agree. Though it seems like the people who try to compare them tend not to understand them.

I never understood how people could compare the Dead with Phish, but they do. Never mind Jerry and Trey...

It's kind of like comparing an impressionist painting with art nouveau

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: May 29, 2012 8:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

.much like Zappa.!!! zappa was a musical genuis! trey sucks ....so why the apples and oranges!!!???

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Poster: adks12020 Date: May 29, 2012 8:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

No doubt Zappa was a musical genius; he was also an inspiration to Trey, as noted in many interviews with Trey.

I was simply pointing out that Trey composes complicated pieces of music and it's more similar to Zappa than to the Grateful Dead.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, is, or was, in Zappa's realm. He created his own.

That said, if you think Trey sucks you need to get your head examined and take off your biased goggles. Personal opinion of his music doesn't change the fact that he is a technically proficient guitar player and has composed some interesting, unique, and complicated pieces of music. Anyone with any knowledge of music and some degree of objectivity would likely agree with that.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: May 29, 2012 8:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

i will not deny that i need my head examined, but that doesnt change my opinion of the spoiled rich kid that takes grateful dead jams and adds words to them and then calls them his own.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 29, 2012 9:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

And the words he adds.....jeesh. Hunter may have produced some questionable lyrical choices here and there, but Trey...he's in a class by himself. Why do so many jam bands feel the need to write lyrics? Afterall, we don't call them "word bands". Again, this is all my personal opinion.

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Poster: adks12020 Date: May 29, 2012 10:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

Haha..Phish takes Grateful Dead jams and adds lyrics!? Their jams and compositions aren't even remotely similar.

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: May 29, 2012 9:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Trey vs. Jerry Thing - totally different so why compare?

"i will not deny that i need my head examined"

Lol. We all know this already :-)

"takes grateful dead jams and adds words to them and then calls them his own."

What are you talking about!? Get your head examined now!!